Black Ops 2 Who Is the Cia Mole

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     Noriega's ammo

• How did Noriega get ammunition for his pistol in the end part of "Suffer With Me"?
  • The literally hundreds of dead bodies along the way, particularly during the point where he escapes Woods and Mason.
  • Along with the above Noriega only fired one shot. There might have been a round left in the chamber after Mason removed the magazine.
    • Pay attention to Mason when he Noriega the gun. He drops the magazine, kicks it away and the racks the slide back, emptying the chamber.
    • Noriega does get into a scuffle with a pair of other US soldiers unaware of his identity or Mason and Woods' mission shortly before they actually get him to a checkpoint, and he ends up shooting one of them before he and the other wrestle each other out the window. It's likely that he managed to steal one of their handguns right out of the holster.

     Noriega letting Menendez go

• For that matter, what did Noriega hope to accomplish by letting Menendez go after being captured by his soldiers? He doesn't seem to attempt to bargain with him.
  • Because Menendez started strangling him before he could begin the bargaining.
    • Fair enough, but it is never even hinted at what they have to gain from each other, even though they seem to be working together in 1989.
    • Menendez has money and is a N.G.O. Superpower. He can pay Noriega, which is all Noriega needs.

     Panamanian soldiers attacking the compound

• How did they get a bunch of Panamanian soldiers in position to attack a compound in Nicaragua? The two countries do not even border on each other, and it is not like the Sandinista government would give them free passage. Not to mention the diplomatic fallout, including a possible all-out war in Central America. Would have made more sense to have Contras guerillas to do the dirty work in that mission.
  • The attack almost certainly happened with the Nicaraguan government's consent. Even if it didn't, this is the Black Ops setting. Remember how the Soviets got hundreds of Spesnaz and a couple of helicopters into Hong Kong? The CIA is just as hypercompetent as the KGB.
  • They obviously couldn't have the Contras show up because "Contra" is a registered trademark of Konami and Activision doesn't like to play nice when anyone else might possibly make even a little bit of money from one of their own properties.

     Age issues

• Woods is apparently supposed to be 95 years old in 2025. Which would mean that he would at least 55 in 1986, yet still went on a mission to Angola despite his advanced age and the effect combat injuries and his imprisonment would likely have on his physique. Not to mention that recovered awfully quickly from his ordeal in Angola to go on missions in Afghanistan and Nicaragua in the very same year.
  • Yeah, and? He's a badass in a setting that runs on badass. In a setting where a man can literally One-Man Army his way though entire military bases, this doesn't seem that implausible.
    • Come to think of it, there is another plot hole caused by Gameplay and Story Segregation here: given that the protagonists can quickly recover from any non-fatal injury, Woods should have recovered from being shot in the legs rather than be stuck in a wheelchair for the rest of his life.
    • It is shown in the bonus cutscene for the best ending that Woods is just lazy.
    • Um, judging by the fact that Woods is A. talking to Menendez as if they're best buddies, and B. participating in some kind of band that's providing music for a dance party, I don't think that scene is meant to be taken seriously.
    • Point-blank shotgun blasts to the legs should have killed him through blood loss, not simply left him wheelchair bound. Woods is lucky that he survived.
    • Still the point stands: the game is very inconsistent when it comes to depict characters' ability to recover from injuries.
• Same goes for Kravchenko, which should really be too old to be active in the field. Seems they wanted to bring characters from the previous game back no matter how implausible it might seem.
  • Why would Kravchenko be too old? Assuming he's in his early-to-mid-20's at the end of WWII, he would be in his 60's in Afghanistan, which, while quite old for military service, would still leave him plausibly in command of a major military force, especially if he keeps his strength up through conditioning.
• Shouldn't Section be a bit old for all the military work he did? He must have been at least 10 years old in "Suffer with me" in 1989, So 35 years later he should be in his mid to late 40s. However, he looks pretty young in cutscenes, his hair not even starting to grey. Why isn't he aging much? If there are anti-aging pills or something in 2025, why does Farid look older?
  • A fit 40-year-old man can look a lot younger than he really is with good genetics and exercise.
  • Also, Farid is under a significant amount of stress as a key player in Cordis Die and an undercover asset.

     Menendez's cash

• How did Menendez manage to amass enough resources to finance his operations? Surely drug dealing and gun running isn't that lucrative?
  • Yes, it is. Drug running is insanely lucrative, even more so back in the 80's than it is now. Not to mention that the drug running was how he got started. It didn't bankroll his entire operation, it just gave him the capital to begin working his way to where he was in 2025.
  • Another thing to remember is that he invested his wealth into a lot of ventures that saw fairly significant returns. I don't know how plausible his level of success would be in the real world, but in the context of Black Ops they've given a fair bit of coverage as to where his wealth came from.

     Alex hiding for over 3 decades

• Why did Alex Mason hide for 36 years, and how?
  • Why: the various hostile terrorists who wanted to kill him, for one thing. How: It is extremely easy to disappear if you want to seriously sever outside ties, especially with the CIA to help, even before factoring in the hypercompetence Black Ops adds to their capabilities.
    • Yeah, but without letting either his son or his best friend know he was alive for all that time? For that matter, being shot in the legs would likely lead to him bleeding out anyway unless the bullets only grazed him.
    • Woods is implied to know Alex is alive. Even so, the point behind disappearing is to disappear. If someone the enemy knows is connected to you knows you're alive, they can find you. As for surviving the wounds, these are COD characters. They've survived far worse.
    • Woods is implied to know Alex is alive. Uh, when was that? Nothing indicates that his surprise when Mason shows up out of nowhere in 2025 is anything but genuine.

     Treyarch's future predictions

• Who consulted Treyarch for their vision of the future 13 years from now? Anyone who's in the military should know the vast majority of the weapons/equipment/ wouldn't even be CLOSE to being standard across all branches by 2025. Let's start off with the F/A-38 that you fly in Los Angeles. It took the F-22 from start to finish about 20 years of testing to being the USAF's Fifth Generation fighter and we're STILL testing the F-35 before full production, so why in gods name would the military start ANOTHER jet and somehow produce an entire fleet of them....in thirteen years. We're still using the A-10, F-16, F-15, and B-52, Jets from the 70s and even 50s! The US military does not like replacing vehicles only upgrading existing ones, if they can to save money. Second, the Drones, an entire drone fleet that's completely standard 13 years from now? Third, the VTOL Dropship. Um...does Treyarch not realize that we just entered the VERY similar V-22 Osprey into service about 3 or so years ago? So tell me WHY exactly they would completely abandoned that design seemingly for an Jet VTOL dropship when the Osprey does the exact same thing for less money and R&D? Basically, Treyarch overestimated the adoption rate for all the tech they introduced and honestly, I think they should've gone with 2040 at a minimum instead of 2025.
  • I'm not sure what franchise you think you're playing. This is Call of Duty, and more to the point, this is Black Ops. Black Ops is a setting with long-distance Russian mind control, teleporting Spetsnaz/CIA battalions, James Bond supervillains, secret underwater doom bases, exploding tomahawks, man-portable miniguns, quantum entanglement computer processors, men who take multiple sniper rifle rounds to unarmored chests and survive, an enraged villain who chops down dozens of PDF troops with just a machete, and General Petreaus still in charge of the CIA. It's Red Alert with more digital camouflage and less cleavage. Lambasting the game for having advanced technology ahead of it's time is rather silly when the setting isn't even remotely trying to be realistic.
    • Now I want this series to just straight become RED ALERT: The first person shooter! Cleavage and all. Come on Anderson you were a pretty lady from what little we saw of you! Unzip your flight suit a little!
  • My sentiments exactly. At no point have Treyarch tried to convince anyone they were shooting for realism outside of the broad strokes of their main plot (power shifts, rare earth materials, that sort of thing). They have always maintained that they are - chiefly - interested in delivering an experience that *feels* authentic, much in the same way that an action movie would do so. You're getting incredibly angry over standards that nobody but you set for the franchise.
    • You guys sure about that? Cause I'm pretty sure they've said multiple times in interviews (which I'm too lazy to look up) that they were having debates about what was too futuristic and what wasn't. Besides, I think his main point wasn't the tech EXISTING, just that it being too across the board. Which is why Ghost Recon: Future Soldier is far more authentic. It's keeps the futuristic stuff to the special forces while the regular military, while using some advanced equipment, is not even close to the tech used by the Ghosts. When the Infinity Ward games are more plausible than your story/elements, you KNOW you've done something completely wrong.
    • "Too futuristic or not" comes under the whole feeling authentic deal. To most people VTOLs and the like are a sign of the future and they won't get bogged down in ranting about manufacturing costs online. Similarly, your comparison to Ghost Recon is a flawed one because as I also said Treyarch designed the game to be authentic along the lines of an action movie. Ghost Recon is steeped in Thomas Clancy fiction and the like; they draw from two seperate sources entirely. You're getting worked up about something you don't seem to understand or want to put into any sort of context.
    • When the Infinity Ward games are more plausible than your story/elements, you KNOW you've done something completely wrong. You seem to be applying a standard that Treyarch can't find the fucks to give about. They're not aiming for realism by IW standards. If anything, the silly-advanced technology works better for Blops. It feels much less absurd than the IW games with their teleporting army divisions bypassing entire countries in a day and nuclear EMP blasts that punch physics in the nards while still trying to be hyper-realistic.

     G-Forces not killing Menendez

• How the hell didn't the G-Forces not kill Menendez when he stole the F/A-38 when the Obama was sinking? I mean the guy was only wearing an orange jumpsuit FFS and not a G-suit military aviators wear.
  • Not flying it at speeds that the G-forces would kill him. Alternately, he's a COD player-character. He can survive what would kill mere mortals.
  • His playable segment shows him to be at least three times tougher than either of the Masons (our own page for the game describes him as playing more like the Doomguy than a traditional CoD player-character). He could take those G-forces better than most.
  • I'm pretty sure those g-suits don't stop pilots from dying from otherwise lethally high g-forces. What the suits do is help the pilot keep from blacking out, which is usually what kills the pilot (crashing) rather than actual g-forces. Anyway, you don't get high g-forces without trying to get them, Saturn V rockets and space shuttles notwithstanding. With what we see Mendendez doing the worst he'll feel is a bit uncomfortable. A human being can withstand several g's without dying or blacking out.

     Hacking drones but not Nukes

• Why the drones? If he had the ability to hack the drones as well as he did, why not go after the nukes? Yes, the drone strikes would devastate the US and Chinese, but if he controlled the nukes, he'd dictate policy around the entire world instead of relying on The Plan to help him out.
  • Nukes would be much harder to take control of. The drones were conventional weapons controlled by the military wireless network that didn't require explicit authorization by the President to launch. Also keep in mind that he wants to do damage, not initiate a nuclear winter. He has no intention to dictate policy, nor does he want to cause massive, large-scale destruction. He wants to militarily cripple his enemies so that the downtrodden can overthrow them, but the downtrodden can't rule an irradiated wasteland. He wants revolution, not Fallout.
    • Pretty much this. He explicitly says that getting rid of the drones would act as an "equaliser" for most of America's enemies. By having them self-destruct he's taking away a huge amount of the USA's conventional firepower, allowing his "billions" of followers to rise up and fight on a relatively even level. Even in the COD universe I doubt the USA would be insane enough to drop nuclear weaponry in response to riots and the like.

     Weapon feasibility

• Not really a headscratcher, per say but how much of the weapons and vehicles here are actually feasible to build and deploy to the battlefield by 2025? I mean it's pretty kickass and awesome Rule of Cool or Truth in Television?
  • It'd be a bit of a stretch to see them deployed so commonly, but a lot of the technology in the game is in some sort of prototype stage at the moment. Closer to Rule of Cool certainly, but it's not completely unfounded.
    • Pretty much this. The only thing I can think of that's COMPLETELY out there and implausible, if not outright impossible, is the jet you fly in Los Angeles. A gunship fighter jet is probably the most idiotic thing you can possibly even put on a drawing board let alone ACTUALLY design and build.
    • Who said that the F/A-38 was ever intended to be a gunship? Its clear from the way it handles that it wasn't intended to be one, but Anderson and Section had to press the plane into that role because they didn't have any actual gunships on hand to do the work for them. When all you've got is a VTOL fighter with cannons and a lot of missiles to provide overwatch, you make do with what you have.

     Hijack

• There are two speedboats on platforms toward the front (bow) of the boat. How on earth do they get into the water? I didn't see any kind of crane.

     Mason and JFK

• Didn't Mason assassinate JFK in the last game? If so, why is he still working for the CIA?
  • Abandoned plot thread, apparently. Making a fictional character "responsible" for the death of a real life person would have likely courted too much controversy, even for this franchise.
  • Considering that Mason's a One-Man Army, they probably figured he was too useful to throw away that quick, especially since he wasn't acting of his own free willl; even in the first game, they apparently considered him useful enough to help kill Dragovitch. Also, Hudson (and perhaps others) may have used the Kennedy assassination as justification for setting him up to be killed by Woods much later.

     USS Barrack Obama

• Besides wondering why they named the ship after a sitting president (I wasn't a fan of the USS George W. Bush being commissioned while its namesake was in office, either. I prefer such things to be memorials to those that are no longer with us), I'm confused by the Obama's number, CVN-08. Shouldn't it have been CVN-80 or something like that? That's how carriers in the US Navy are numbered. I'm not even sure if it should have the zero before the 8, even assuming its a completely new classification.
  • It's the USS George H.W. Bush. It's named after the 41st President, not the 43rd, and it was commissioned in 2009, 16 years after the man left office. (Bush Sr. was also a Naval aviator in World War II, which makes naming an aircraft carrier after him make even more sense.)
  • And between it and the USS Ronald Reagan, that's two real-world aircraft carriers named after former Presidents. Making a third one happen in a fictional 2025 is hardly beyond the bounds of plausibility, given that by that point Obama will have been out of office for 9 years.
    • Sorta makes sense, though it still bugs me on a meta level. Any thoughts on the ship's hull number? I can't make sense of that no matter how hard I try.
    • Probably a mistake and should've been CV-80 (for reference, the real CV-80 is scheduled to be in operation by 2027). The real CV-8 was the **Yorktown**, which sank in 1942, and the USN doesn't reuse hull numbers.

     Section's Flying Qualification

• Since when was Section a certified Navy Seal Commander AND a fighter pilot? The game tries to handwave it by saying "Flight Computer systems should do most of the work". Even if that was the case, how would he even know how to fly the basics? He explicitly said he never flown one, but he's flying far better than Anderson did.
  • Because he's that awesome, that's why. In any case, most of what he does is steer a bit and point the guns and shoot. It's something so simple that, say, any idiot with a videogame controller could do it.
  • Also, considering that this is an age where wholly automated drones are used as fighter aircraft, it is entirely possible that Section is getting help from some on board autopilot/Artificial Intelligence. After all, you aren't controlling every aspect of the plane when you fly it, as the plane seems to be accelerating and targeting on its own. Also, he does still crash.
  • Keep in mind also that Section appears to have at least some familiarity with flight ops. He knows what buttons to push and how to control the plane, at least enough to move it around a bit and fire the weapons. He probably wouldn't be able to do extended flight operations with it, but he only needs to know enough to get it flying, fire the weapons at anything threatening, and kinda-sorta-steer it around.

     Woods' Rank

• So I've done the math, and I've figured out that Woods is 56-9 in the 80's. Isn't that a little too old to still be a sergeant? For example, Dragovich is 53 at the time of his death, and he's a fucking Major General, which is like the fourth highest rank in all the army. Yet Woods is still a sergeant. Any explanation?
  • If you look closely during the ending where Section and Woods visit Alex's grave, Woods' service uniform shows he has the rank of Master Sergeant, which is a senior enlisted rank in the Marine Corps that usually takes 15+ or more years to attain. So he retired from active duty service with that rank.

     The "Cold War"

• How is it ever explained that China entered a Cold War with us when they're several decades behind the United States in pretty much every area, militarily? "Cold War" implies that both nations are on some equal footing, somehow. Which isn't the case...at all.
  • Because they aren't several decades behind the US at the time of the game. Hell, Woods states it rather explicitly right there in the opening cutscene: all of the First World militaries, including China, are drone dependent, and drones are advanced enough that they require rare earth elements to produce, and China dominates the rare earth element industry, giving them a serious edge. Also keep in mind that "Cold War" does not necessarily mean absolute equality. "Cold War" is a state of opposition between two powers that is hostile in terms of economic and espionage and political influence, but has not boiled over into actual military conflict. The fact that J-SOC is engaged in proxy wars in half a dozen countries in an effort to protect these countries from SDC influence is a clear indicator of an active cold war.

     Wood's sanity

• Is it even physically possible for a human being to be as "sane" as Woods is in his old age considering the VAST amounts of fucked up shit he's seen? Granted, real life PTSD is different than Hollywood Flanderization, but holy fuck. 90 years old and still cracking jokes like no tomorrow and heavily implies that while he does go on memory lane at time, he brushes it off. I'd be willing to bet that any soldier, no matter how mentally well trained, can ever be normal after Black Ops 1 let alone the stuff that went down with Menendez.
  • Based on what, exactly? I'd love to see some scholarly psychological studies indicating that it is entirely impossible for an old veteran to be mentally stable despite long-term trauma.
  • Does one even NEED a psychological study? I mean you found the guy trapped in a compartment for what? Months on end? With CORPSES of his comrades. How in the living fuck could ANYONE be normal after that?
    • By being strong and undergoing proper medical care. Woods appears perfectly sane by the time he's an old man. He appears to have undergone quite a bit of trauma whne younger, and ends up with a serious psychotic streak when fighting Menendez, but he's mellowed out in his age. The human mind is stronger than you give it credit for; time and tragedy have dulled the pain of what happened, and he recovered. People can do that, especially if properly cared for. Going by the facility he lives in now, he has been receiving proper care.
      Its also a consistent part of Woods' characterization that he has a very strong will and is not easy to break. He survives multiple Vietnam prison camps and continues on, he survives being locked in the container, and survives multiple betrayals and even seems to take Mason's hypnotic insanity in stride. The only thing he seems to have brought with him from all that trauma is a psychotic streak regarding Menendez. Is it unusual? Yes, somewhat. But not impossible, and stories like this focus on characters who are exceptional. Woods, in this case, has an exceptionally strong mind.
  • He's a Marine
  • Is Woods really all that sane? Most of his jokes, if they can be called that, are abrasive and tinged with bitterness, and his perfect, emotional recollections of the events of the 80s strongly imply that 35 years has dulled the pain very little, if at all. When recalling Hudson's betrayal, he works himself up into an incoherent rage and almost gives himself a stroke before Section calms him down, and even then it's obvious he hasn't forgiven Hudson for what he did ("FUCKIN' HUDSON! I SHOULD'VE SMOKED HIM IN NAM!"), despite witnessing his death. Woods' decidedly nonchalant reaction to Menendez coming to kill him in one ending and his maudlin dialogue in another when sarcastically asked if he talks to the dead ("Nah. They talk to me.") suggest that by this point, with so many years and so much trauma behind him, he's half-hoping to just drop dead, as much as he loves Section.
    • Also, he freaks out when Section asks him why he "lost his shit" when he saw Menendez.

     So who saved Mason and co from the desert?

• So Woods confirmed it wasn't "tricky Vic" who saved them. Then who was it??? Noriega?
  • Woods didn't confirm that is wasn't Reznov. He was unconscious the whole time, and only Mason saw who saved them.
  • But they must've regained consciousness eventually and seen who their saviors were. And I'm pretty sure Woods does say "No, it wasn't him."
    • No, Woods never says that Reznov wasn't there, he simply says that Mason says that Reznov was the one who saved them. That no one could verify his story simply indicates that the others were unconscious through the rescue.
    • The real Reznov is missing a finger, so it's a hallucination. as for who saved him, I'd bet either Brooks or Weaver, probably both.
    • Maybe it was just a passing local who decided that Sacred Hospitality and general decency meant he should give these poor dying fellows a little water?
  • I have a theory about that. Mason did it. Woods just got done telling David Mason about how much of a dangerous son-of-a-bitch Alex Mason was as a result of the numbers, and one of Mason's biggest Crowning Moments of Awesome revolved around him taking on an entire military base on his own and winning, and while he was going One-Man Army on the place, he hallucinated Reznov's presence and thought he was tag-teaming it with him the entire time. Mason has pulled off the impossible more than once with "Reznov's help", so it could be inferred that in that situation, he found a way out while thinking that Reznov was the one who helped him.
  • I always assumed that it was a Mujahid who felt sympathy for the group after they helped them fight off the Russians.

     Weaver?

• Alright, I'll be the one to say it: What the hell happened to Weaver? Woods comes back. Kravchenko comes back. Reznov (maybe) comes back. May I remind you all that these three were thought to be DEAD. Weaver was alive and well (minus an eye), and he vanishes. What happened? Did the whole of Treyarch just forget?
  • Maybe they dropped the character because his voice actor wasn't available at the time? Gene Farber was busy voicing Kozak in Ghost Recon: Future Soldier around when this game was in development; it's entirely possible that by the time that was all over, Treyarch had already said "fuck it" and managed to make a plot that worked for the 80's missions and didn't involve Weaver. Although, this does bring up the question of why they'd drop one character whose original voice was unavailable, but go for a sound-alike who doesn't actually sound anything alike for another one, unless they were absolutely unable to make a plot with both Weaver and Hudson MIA for no reason.
    • I guess that makes sense. I just they gave an explanation for it, you know?
  • He could have been killed in the mission that tried to assassinate Mason, Weaver, and Hudson.

     Most Dangerous Terrorist since Osama Bin Laden

• Menendez is identified early on as "The Most Dangerous Terrorist since Osama Bin Laden." Wouldn't Vladimir Makarov have greatly overshadowed Bin Laden by the time Menendez became that powerful? Why not compare Raul to Makarov instead?
  • Who said that Black Ops and Modern Warfare were in the same continuity?
    • Like I said on the Modern Warfare page, Viktor Reznov from World at War was apparently originally meant to be an ancestor of Imran Zakhaev. However, that's pretty much the only concrete connection between the two sub-series, and as I also said there, now that sequels to both of those games are actually out I can't find actual confirmation of that connection anymore, which leads me to believe I misread something or someone misreported something.
    • Cold War did.
    • But Cold War connects Call of Duty: Modern Warfare (2019), not Modern Warfare to the Black Ops Series.

     Better not stop Mason

• So not one person in the room noticed Mason convulsing as he pointed a loaded pistol at Kravchenko, let alone tried to stop him, and were surprised if Mason actually does shoot him? Not to mention, since at least Hudson knew that Reznov brainwashed Mason to kill Kravchenko, why did he even allow him in the room, let alone with a loaded weapon?
  • Hudson is the double agent that Kravchenko is talking about, remember? He has every reason to hope that someone kills Kravchenko before the dude can finish talking. Heck, it's likely that he's specifically setting you up to do it.
    • No he wasn't, the only reason he misled Woods and Mason during the events of Suffer With Me was because Menendez (presumably with help from the real double agent(s)) kidnapped Hudson and David and threatened to kill the latter if he didn't cooperate. If Hudson really was Menendez' mole in the CIA, he wouldn't have needed to use David as leverage.

     Salazar

• Salazar is Nicaraguan and knew all about Menendez's background, yet somehow, this doesn't make him a person of interest to the government?

Unsorted

• Why does Woods resent Hudson for the events that happened in "Suffer With Me"? It's obvious that he was doing it all to protect David, he even says so immediately after Menendez captures them all. It's true that they were never on particularly good terms from the first game, but he even helped rescue Woods when Menendez captured him in the first mission, so it seems particularly odd for him to blame Hudson as much as he blames himself.
  • Woods, in case you couldn't tell, is very unstable. The resentment is very irrational; that's the whole point.
    • He's mostly calm and collected in terms of giving intel and details to Section outside of that one scene and the one where he describes his torture by Menendez before the game started, so it seemed out of character at the time, even for him.
• "We don't target civilians", says Frank Woods. Assuming he's only discussing black operations (otherwise the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki put that to rest straight away), Woods is an experienced clandestine operator with Vietnam combat experience, yet we're expected to believe he's never heard of the Phoenix Program, the black op designed to assassinate the Viet Cong's civilian support structure? Or other black ops like Operation Condor or Gladio? Or for that matter, the mission in the first game where he snuck into a civilian rocket launch facility, killed the scientists, and blew up a rocket with the cosmonauts inside?
  • Why would he have heard of these things? Does the phrase 'black ops' mean nothing to you? If Woods was not involved in those operations, he shouldn't have heard anything about them. It'd violate operational security. Also, the atomic bombings did not specifically target civilians. They fell under the concept of total war. In total war, everyone is involved.
    • He can read a newspaper, can't he? Operation Phoenix isn't exactly secret anymore, nor are some of the United States' other misadventures. And anyway, it's the absolute naivete of Woods when he says this. Black ops are black ops because they're highly unethical and they have no rules. Why would he think targeting civilians are out of bounds? As I mentioned, he did it in the first game.
    • I highly doubt covert ops were declassified in the middle of the Cold War. Woods said that bit in the 80's, and I don't remember shooting at any civilians in Black Ops 1. Also, black ops are not 'black ops' because they are unethical. They are 'black ops' because no one is supposed to know you were ever there ('you' being the country). Some operations are unethical; some aren't.
    • The civilians in the first Black Ops were the scientists from "Executive Order", Nazi scientists co-opted after the war so they could keep doing their thing for the Soviets. It presumably was a military facility considering the large number of armed guards, including several patrolling helicopters, so "civilian" probably isn't the right word to describe the scientists; "noncombatant" would be more correct, but that's really splitting hairs since it should basically be the same difference, and probably would be if they weren't Nazis.
  • "We don't target civilians" is not some be-all, end-all doctrine that is adhered to with absolute religious devotion. It's a general policy that Woods would prefer to follow but which he knows that isn't followed.
• Why does Mullah Rahmaan think the United States is "the true enemy", exactly? CIA officers and government officials were enthusiastic supporters of the mujihadeen, considering them stalwart allies against the "threat" of worldwide atheism. The US generally did everything it could to cultivate radical Islam by pumping millions upon millions of (taxpayer) dollars into far-right Islamic governments whilst also ostracizing Iran, whom the predominantly Sunni and Pashto-led Taliban loathed. In fact, the reason the Afghan War happened is because Osama bin Laden didn't think Muslims were taking the "threat" the United States posed seriously ^note Hello, Modern Warfare 2! , which caused a lot of friction between him and the Taliban, who were actively trying to do business with the US. So why would Rahmaan, right when he's getting everything he could ever want on a silver platter from a friendly, religiously-motivated superpower that's also deeply in bed with Saudi Arabia, think they were "the true enemy" when there's an atheist superpower knocking down his front door? "An" enemy, perhaps, but the true enemy? As opposed to the communists trying their damnedest to make sure there are no more mullahs in the Middle East?
  • It's made pretty clear that the Mujahideen were bought off by Menendez, who was probably able to ply them with anti-American rhetoric.
    • I get that. I just don't get why he feels that way, considering everything the United States is doing for him. Hell, even bin Laden thanked the US for Operation Cyclone, and look how much of a far-right anti-American asshole he turned out to be. The situation in the game is like Italian fascists convincing the French resistance that England and the United States were going to screw them over, so they should ally themselves with Italy instead. It's just bizarre, and doubly so since Treyarch clearly did the research, for instance by showing the MSS ^note Chinese Intelligence as being involved with the CIA. The whole thing just reeks of Politically Correct History.
    • It's probably not the most satisfying answer, but given how Menendez seems to dump equally on the Americans and Chinese in "Fallen Angel", as well as some of the stuff he says in the "Rightful King" story, it seems as though be believes that all foreign intervention is equally evil, and convinced Rahmaan that the US ultimately were no different than the Russians and would eventually try to take advantage of them. He was probably hypothesising based on his own experiences in Nicaragua, in which both the Contras and the Sandinistas screwed their people over in some way or another. His charisma and/or piles of drug money presumably did the rest
    • Minor note: there is nothing wrong with taking aid from those you hate if they are stupid enough to give it to you. The enemy of your enemy is not necessarily your friend, just a temporary ally. Also the people fighting the Soviets in the 80's weren't exactly a solidified group. Many went right back to fighting each other as soon as the Soviets left. The ones you see in the game have their own opinion of America. Another group could easily have a different one, if they have one at all.
    • Exactly; Rahmaan was only in charge of that particular cell, and since there's so many, it's easy to imagine the CIA simply taking their business elsewhere once they realised it had been compromised by Menendez.
• Kravchenko reveals that there's a mole inside the CIA, and Jason Hudson starts to get agitated. Sure enough, it's later revealed he's the traitor. But in "Suffer With Me", the man in question claims he's only doing it to save David's life, which wasn't in jeopardy three years previously. Was he the mole all along and trying to save face? If so, why did he turn? Or was there another mole who blackmailed him right before Operation Just Cause? If so, why did he act the way he did during the interrogation? It'd be nice if there were intel files to explain things like these....
  • I don't understand why everyone on this wiki keeps saying Hudson was a mole— it was screamingly obvious that he was loyal up to the very end, and that the reason why "Suffer With Me" turned out the way it was is because Menendez's men (presumably the real moles) kidnapped him in the middle of the operation and forced him to give bogus orders so that Menendez wouldn't kill David. As for his reaction to Kravchenko, I didn't see anything incriminating about it— Kravchenko said something that sounded outrageous, and Hudson simply responded appropriately.
  • Hudson may have been reacting to the fact that Mason was partially brainwashed and the implication that other good agents might have been similarly brainwashed by Menendez's goons.
• What happened to Cordis Die at the end? Did their followers all just give up?
  • Without Menendez and DeFalco to direct them, they likely fell apart. It was a cult of personality built around him, and him being outed as a terrorist and either imprisoned or committing suicide would be a hammerblow to an organization that is literally built entirely around him.
  • Depends which "end" are we talking about, doesn't it? Remember, it is possible that their resolve is galvanized to the point they burn the White House.
  • This is mentioned at the start of "Celerium." Essentially, Cordis Die doesn't know Menendez is a terrorist, by and large. He's just a faceless leader referred to as "Odysseus." If Menendez is captured and publically tried as the terrorist he is, then Cordis Die will pretty much fall apart once everyone realizes their leader is a lunatic. If he's killed, he's a martyr.
• I can't be the only one who's bothered by this: In Second Chance, when you rescue Chloe, the soldier who rescues her gives he an M1911. Now, I get that it's still a popular gun even today, but what are the chances of a soldier in 2025 having one on his person?
  • Considering the M1911 is considered a very prized weapon that active servicemen are still using over a 100 years after its introduction, it's honestly not that surprising.
  • Well, it still kinda sticks out in a way. Nobody else in this version of 2025 is using the games's 1980s-era weapons. If this game were more realistic, I'd probably be seeing just as many original AK-47's, MP5's, and 1911's as AN-94's, MP7's, & FNP-45's.
• In the ending where David and Woods visit the grave of his father Alex Mason why does he leave his M1911 pistol at the foot of the grave? It's a nice symbolic gesture but that's still a lethal weapon in a public area. Even assuming he removed the firing pin that kind of thing can always be replaced by an expert.
  • There's no real explanation to this. All it was done for was the heartwarming factor.
  • He didn't load it/pulled the pin out?
  • If someone is skilled enough to replace the pin, they're probably already armed to begin with, and likely a legal gunsmith who would turn the weapon over to the authorities.
  • Let's not forget that this is just a game.
    • Let's not forget that you're stating the obvious.
• In his webcast near the end of "Judgment Day", Menendez says "Los Angeles was the flagship of their absurd materialism, so I destroyed it." Wait, what about New York?
  • What about it? Los Angeles is, generally speaking, the dominant beacon of Western materialism. NYC has historical cultural import and is the site of the New York Stock Exchange and an economic center, but LA is far more dominant as the center of American materialistic culture.
  • It's also because the G8 meeting happened to be there as well.
  • Actually, dialogue from Harper suggests that New York was attacked too. And Washington DC. And the Pentagon.
• I feel like I've missed something fairly significant, but if the US military is actively trying to kill General Zhao - and skirmishing with his forces fairly often - why does he allow Section and Section's allies to escape at the end of that one level? Have I missed an in-game explanation somewhere?
  • Zhao says that they're both fighting against Cordis Die when you meet his team, so it's ostensibly an "enemy of my enemy" thing. Also keep in mind that Zhao is working with Menendez (this is revealed if you recover all the intel in the optional mission objectives) and Menendez wants Section alive as a witness to his revenge, so he would reasonably leave specific orders to spare Section if possible.
• Why would the US Navy, a mere nine years after the end of President Obama's second term, name a huge ship after him? Generally speaking, Presidents aren't honoured this way this fast.
  • It is just a game. Besides, they showed Patreus as Secretary of Defense even though he had an extramarital affair and resigned just before the game was released. You never know; Obama might actually do something amazing enough to get himself a ship.
    • Tell us something we don't know, President Obvious?
  • The US Navy has done exactly that on multiple occasions. This page has a list of several commissioned ships bearing the names of living Presidents shortly after their terms. The USS Ronald Reagan was christened 13 years after his term, and the George HW Bush only 14.
    • The Navy traditionally names ships after Presidents who served in the Navy, or enacted policies that benefited the Navy. Obama never served in the Navy and largely has supported cuts to military spending. There is very little chance a carrier will ever be named after him.
  • Though I'll admit I don't get why the ship is named after Obama, even for meta reasons, I'm outright mystified as to why the ship's hull number is CV-8. Its most obvious on the level when you're on the carrier. The door you open to talk to Menendez has the number listed practically at eye level.
• Alright, I'll be the one to say it: What the hell happened to Weaver? Woods comes back. Kravchenko comes back. Reznov (maybe) comes back. May I remind you all that these three were thought to be DEAD. Weaver was alive and well (minus an eye), and he vanishes. What happened? Did the whole of Treyarch just forget?
  • It's been suggested that he may have been killed or captured during Operation Charybdis, an operation the CIA came up with to eliminate Mason, Hudson and Weaver. However, the operation likely either failed or was canned as Mason and Hudson are obviously still alive (and Hudson is still working for the CIA) by the events of 2. So what happened? No one knows. Maybe he alone was eliminated, maybe he retired from or quit the CIA, maybe he took a job in the private sector. Treyarch probably just didn't feel he was important to the story and he became a victim of Chuck Cunningham Syndrome.
• Menendez is described as "The Most Dangerous Terrorist since Osama Bin Laden." Wouldn't Vladimir Makarov have greatly overshadowed Bin Laden already by this point and thus invite a more direct comparison to him instead?
  • There's no indication that Modern Warfare and Black Ops are the same continuity.
  • Actually in Modern Warfare 3 you can see Kravchenko named as one of Makarov's associates in a blink and you miss it moment (in the opening cutscene of "Back on the Grid")
• So not one person in the room noticed Mason convulsing as he pointed a loaded pistol at Kravchenko, let alone tried to stop him, and were surprised if Mason actually does shoot him? Not to mention, since at least Hudson knew that Reznov brainwashed Mason to kill Kravchenko, why did he even allow him in the room, let alone with a loaded weapon?
  • The twitching gun part I think it was simply intended as a visual way to see how well you were doing mashing the buttons and not really how it actually happened. IIRC, Woods also mentioned Mason had been treated psychologically for his brainwashing (though he also mentioned Mason's occasionally odd behavior seemed to indicate it wasn't 100% gone) so maybe Hudson thought Mason could control himself long enough to be used to scare Kravchenko. Basically a 'You tortured Mason here, how about I tell him to do whatever he wants for revenge' sort of threat.
    • If it's just a "visual", then why does Mason shoot him if you don't button mash fast enough?
    • Because he snaps and loses control and shoot him because he was brainwashed to. Him holding the pistol was just a gameplay feature to show you how you were doing. Probably what really happened if you shot him was Mason suddenly drew his sidearm and fired it.
    • The way I see it is that everyone simply thought that Mason was trying to threaten Kravchenko by aiming the gun at him. If you really think about it, aiming a gun at someone who you're trying to interrogate doesn't really mean you intend to shoot them. If you remember in Modern Warfare 3, Price points his pistol at Yuri after Soap dies and interrogates him (to a degree) on the spot about Yuri's history with Makarov. In the same sense, it's likely that Hudson and the others simply thought that Mason was trying to scare Kravchenko, especially since they couldn't see the numbers or hear Reznov like Mason could. To them, all it looked like was Mason pointing a gun at Kravchenko.
• I'm confused by Zhao's alignment. If he was working with the Americans against Menendez's interests in the cold war, why does he ultimately switch sides and end up working for Menendez? It's obvious that he wasn't working for Menendez all along, because then the Mujahideen wouldn't have betrayed him. In fact, you'd think the whole betrayal thing would kind of push him away from Menendez.
  • Maybe he promised Zhao some sort of position of power after the revolution.
  • It's also very likely that during the intervening years, Menendez won Zhao's support by promising him that he would cripple the United States, which is China's primary rival.
• Why does Menendez want Karma? Even when you take it from him, his plan goes down without problem (for a while at least)
  • She is the only one who understands quantum computing enough to stop his cyber attack.
  • Having said that, why does he want Karma taken alive? If he wanted to torture or interrogate her for whatever reason, why does Salazar/Defalco kill her in two variants of the confrontation on the Obama?
• One thing I never got. If Woods shoots Mason's legs. Why isn't Mason crippled like Woods?
• At the start of the first mission, where one of the soldiers is trapped in the burning vehicle, why didn't the player character shoot the glass instead of trying to smash it?
  • And risk an unintentional Mercy Kill? Wait a minute...

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Black Ops 2 Who Is the Cia Mole

Source: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Headscratchers/CallOfDutyBlackOpsII

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